ChatGPT Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
Greninja wants to stop Cloud’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Jab 3 with OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f), then force Cloud back outside Neutral Air and Forward Air to keep stage control.
In Greninja vs Cloud, the stable plan is to avoid playing directly into Cloud’s Neutral Air and Forward Air and take the landing or ledge route before Cloud can reset.
The table shows that Cloud’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Jab 3 can be answered by Greninja’s OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f), so those overcommitments should be cashed out immediately.
For Greninja, Cloud’s Neutral Air and Forward Air are still hard to hit immediately out of shield, so reading the landing spot or ledge route matters more than forcing an early swing.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Greninja OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jab 1 | 4 | -21 |
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| Jab 2 | 5 | -24 |
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| Jab 3 | 6 | -27 |
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| Forward Tilt | 9 | -16 |
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| Up Tilt | 6 | -18 |
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| Down Tilt | 7 | -26 |
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| Dash Attack | 9 | -26 |
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| Forward Smash | 19/24/28 | -29/-30 |
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| Up Smash | 12 | -24 |
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| Down Smash | 8/21 | -38/-20 |
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| Neutral Air | 5 | -5 |
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| Forward Air | 18 | -6/-6/-7 |
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| Back Air | 11 | -3 |
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| Up Air | 8 | -5/-5 |
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| Down Air | 11 | -11/-12 |
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| Neutral B | 18(18) | -25(-33) |
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| Side B | 10 | -25 |
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| Up B | 7/10 | ** | ||
| Down B (1) | — | — | ||
| Down B (2) | 12 (ground) // 14 (air) | -70/-71 |
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| Grab | 9 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 12 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 13 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Greninja should not play directly into Cloud’s Neutral Air and Forward Air; wait for Cloud’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Jab 3 and answer with OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f).
- After Greninja blocks Cloud’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Jab 3, pick the reachable option from OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f) immediately.
- Greninja should not mash after Cloud’s Neutral Air and Forward Air; take the landing route, escape route, or ledge route first.
- Greninja should finish stocks by breaking Cloud’s landing and recovery routes so Neutral Air and Forward Air does not get more neutral reps.
Actions to Avoid
- Letting Cloud start the exchange on Neutral Air and Forward Air terms and giving Greninja’s stage control away for free.
- Having Greninja block Cloud’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Jab 3 but never answer with OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f).
- Sending Greninja too deep after Cloud’s Neutral Air and Forward Air and letting the reset punish the chase back.
- Panicking at the ledge as Greninja and simplifying Cloud’s Neutral Air and Forward Air-driven advantage sequence.