ChatGPT Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)
Greninja wants to stop Roy’s Jab, Forward Tilt, and Up Tilt with OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f), then force Roy back outside Down Tilt and Neutral Air to keep stage control.
In Greninja vs Roy, the stable plan is to avoid playing directly into Roy’s Down Tilt and Neutral Air and take the landing or ledge route before Roy can reset.
The table shows that Roy’s Jab, Forward Tilt, and Up Tilt can be answered by Greninja’s OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f), so those overcommitments should be cashed out immediately.
For Greninja, Roy’s Down Tilt and Neutral Air are still hard to hit immediately out of shield, so reading the landing spot or ledge route matters more than forcing an early swing.
Full Move Frame Quick Reference
| Opponent Move | Startup | On Shield | Greninja OOS Candidate Moves | Barely Missed Moves |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jab | 5 | -9/-12 |
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| Forward Tilt | 8 | -13/-16/-17 |
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| Up Tilt | 6 | -21/-25 |
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| Down Tilt | 7 | -3/-7 |
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| Dash Attack | 13 | -17/-21 |
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| Forward Smash | 13 | -27/-29/-32 |
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| Up Smash | 12/15/17/19/22 | -29 |
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| Down Smash | 6/21 | -46/-49/-30/-33 |
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| Neutral Air | 6/15 | -6/-6/-5/-6 |
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| Forward Air | 10 | -4/-5 |
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| Back Air | 8 | -5/-6 |
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| Up Air | 5 | -4/-5 |
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| Down Air | 16 | -9/-10 |
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| Neutral B | 21-260 | -15 to Shieldbreak |
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| Side B | 9 | -26/-16(air) |
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| Up B | 9/11… | ** | ||
| Down B | 8 (Start of Counter) | — | ||
| Grab | 7 | — | ||
| Dash Grab | 10 | — | ||
| Pivot Grab | 11 | — |
Win Condition Checklist
- Greninja should not play directly into Roy’s Down Tilt and Neutral Air; wait for Roy’s Jab, Forward Tilt, and Up Tilt and answer with OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f).
- After Greninja blocks Roy’s Jab, Forward Tilt, and Up Tilt, pick the reachable option from OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f) immediately.
- Greninja should not mash after Roy’s Down Tilt and Neutral Air; take the landing route, escape route, or ledge route first.
- Greninja should finish stocks by breaking Roy’s landing and recovery routes so Down Tilt and Neutral Air does not get more neutral reps.
Actions to Avoid
- Letting Roy start the exchange on Down Tilt and Neutral Air terms and giving Greninja’s stage control away for free.
- Having Greninja block Roy’s Jab, Forward Tilt, and Up Tilt but never answer with OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f).
- Sending Greninja too deep after Roy’s Down Tilt and Neutral Air and letting the reset punish the chase back.
- Panicking at the ledge as Greninja and simplifying Roy’s Down Tilt and Neutral Air-driven advantage sequence.