Greninja vs Simon

Simon Matchup (Greninja)

Greninja vs Simon

Greninja vs Simon is most stable when you stop playing directly into Simon's Rapid Jab and Forward Tilt, punish Jab 1 and Jab 2, and take the landing or ledge route first.

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ChatGPT Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)

Greninja wants to stop Simon’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Rapid Jab Finisher with OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f), then force Simon back outside Rapid Jab and Forward Tilt to keep stage control.
In Greninja vs Simon, the stable plan is to avoid playing directly into Simon’s Rapid Jab and Forward Tilt and take the landing or ledge route before Simon can reset.
The table shows that Simon’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Rapid Jab Finisher can be answered by Greninja’s OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f), so those overcommitments should be cashed out immediately.
For Greninja, Simon’s Rapid Jab and Forward Tilt are still hard to hit immediately out of shield, so reading the landing spot or ledge route matters more than forcing an early swing.

Full Move Frame Quick Reference

Opponent MoveStartupOn ShieldGreninja OOS Candidate MovesBarely Missed Moves
Jab 15-21
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (19f)
  • Up B (19f)
  • OOS Dair (20f)
Jab 23-23
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (19f)
  • Up B (19f)
  • OOS Dair (20f)
Rapid Jab9/12/15…
Rapid Jab Finisher3-37
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (19f)
  • Up B (19f)
  • OOS Dair (20f)
Forward Tilt12-8/-7
  • None
  • OOS Bair (+1)
  • Grab (+3)
  • OOS Uair (+3)
Up Tilt10-17
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (+2)
  • Up B (+2)
  • OOS Dair (+3)
Down Tilt (1)7-31
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (19f)
  • Up B (19f)
  • OOS Dair (20f)
Down Tilt (2)8-42/-28
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (19f)
  • Up B (19f)
  • OOS Dair (20f)
Dash Attack10/13/16/19/22/24-26
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (19f)
  • Up B (19f)
  • OOS Dair (20f)
Forward Smash24-28/-26
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (19f)
  • Up B (19f)
  • OOS Dair (20f)
Up Smash16-27/-26
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (19f)
  • Up B (19f)
  • OOS Dair (20f)
Down Smash14/20-33/-30/-27/-24
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (19f)
  • Up B (19f)
  • OOS Dair (20f)
Neutral Air8…-12/-11
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (+1)
Forward Air14-6/-5/-8
  • None
  • OOS Bair (+3)
Back Air14-6/-5/-8
  • None
  • OOS Bair (+3)
Up Air14-6/-5/-8
  • None
  • OOS Bair (+3)
Down Air13-21/-23
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
  • OOS Fair (19f)
  • Up B (19f)
  • OOS Dair (20f)
Neutral B30-6
  • None
  • OOS Bair (+2)
Side B19-15
  • OOS Bair (8f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Uair (10f)
  • Up Smash (12f)
  • OOS Nair (15f)
Up B6/9/…**
Down B18**
Grab10
Dash Grab13
Pivot Grab14

Win Condition Checklist

  • Greninja should not play directly into Simon’s Rapid Jab and Forward Tilt; wait for Simon’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Rapid Jab Finisher and answer with OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f).
  • After Greninja blocks Simon’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Rapid Jab Finisher, pick the reachable option from OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f) immediately.
  • Greninja should not mash after Simon’s Rapid Jab and Forward Tilt; take the landing route, escape route, or ledge route first.
  • Greninja should finish stocks by breaking Simon’s landing and recovery routes so Rapid Jab and Forward Tilt does not get more neutral reps.

Actions to Avoid

  • Letting Simon start the exchange on Rapid Jab and Forward Tilt terms and giving Greninja’s stage control away for free.
  • Having Greninja block Simon’s Jab 1, Jab 2, and Rapid Jab Finisher but never answer with OOS Bair (8f), Grab (10f), OOS Uair (10f), and Up Smash (12f).
  • Sending Greninja too deep after Simon’s Rapid Jab and Forward Tilt and letting the reset punish the chase back.
  • Panicking at the ledge as Greninja and simplifying Simon’s Rapid Jab and Forward Tilt-driven advantage sequence.

Reference Links

Related Pages