Simon vs Lucas

Lucas Matchup (Simon)

Simon vs Lucas

Simon vs Lucas is most stable when you refuse to let the matchup stay only about projectile exchanges and setup wars and instead force body contact while stacking clean punishes.

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ChatGPT Matchup Summary (Win Condition and Game Plan)

Simon is strongest at layered projectile pressure and stage-control traps, while Lucas is strongest at midrange disjoints backed by projectile support.
The more this stays only about projectile exchanges and setup wars, the more both sides get to set their preferred pace. The side that steps forward first after forcing hesitation usually takes control.
The table shows reliable shield punishes on Up Smash, Side B, Forward Smash, Up B (2), and Jab 3, with Up B, Grab, OOS Nair, and OOS Dair showing up most often as the clean ways to take the turn back.
Do not force shield punishes on the relatively safer choices like Forward Air, Back Air, and Up Air. It is usually better to read the landing or ledge route and punish the next action.

Full Move Frame Quick Reference

Opponent MoveStartupOn ShieldSimon OOS Candidate MovesBarely Missed Moves
Jab 12-13
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (+3)
  • Up Smash (+3)
Jab 23-13
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (+3)
  • Up Smash (+3)
Jab 36-19
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Forward Tilt7-10/-8
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (+2)
  • OOS Nair (+3)
Up Tilt4/7-18
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down Tilt3-6
  • Up B (6f)
Dash Attack13-15/-12
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
Forward Smash14-21
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Up Smash28/30-54
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down Smash20/29/39-12
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
Neutral Air7…/26-10/-9
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (+1)
  • OOS Nair (+2)
Forward Air9-3/-2
  • None
Back Air15-5/-4/-6
  • None
  • Up B (+2)
Up Air7-3
  • None
  • Up B (+3)
Down Air10/18/26/34-14/-13
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (+3)
  • Up Smash (+3)
Z Air9-2
  • None
Neutral B40-92-14 to -5
  • None
  • Up B (+1)
Side B21-24
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Up B (1)20
Up B (2)1/4/6/8/10/12/14/17/20/23/26/29-21
  • Up B (6f)
  • Grab (10f)
  • OOS Nair (11f)
  • OOS Dair (16f)
  • Up Smash (16f)
  • OOS Bair (17f)
  • OOS Fair (17f)
  • OOS Uair (17f)
Down B19 (7 is start of absorb)+0
  • None
Grab12
Dash Grab14
Pivot Grab15

Win Condition Checklist

  • Do not settle for projectile exchanges and setup wars alone; step forward and touch the body as soon as you make the opponent pause.
  • After blocking Up Smash, Side B, Forward Smash, Up B (2), and Jab 3, answer immediately with Up B, Grab, OOS Nair, and OOS Dair so the opponent cannot keep the turn.
  • Do not force immediate retaliation on Forward Air, Back Air, and Up Air; take the landing route, escape route, or ledge direction first.
  • Finish stocks through repeated landing traps and ledge pressure instead of overcommitting to single hard reads in center stage.

Actions to Avoid

  • Drifting back forever around projectile exchanges and setup wars, then giving up the time needed to pressure the body.
  • Swinging after every blocked Forward Air, Back Air, and Up Air and feeding the whiff punish or reset the opponent wants.
  • Chasing too deep for the kill and exposing Simon’s own recovery or defensive weakness.
  • Panic-jumping or panic-rolling from the ledge and making the opponent’s ledge trap too simple.

Reference Links

Related Pages